Out of Charges (OOC thread)

[Valdi]

I was going to mention this too.  I figure that since Warpriests can spontaneously cast heal spells like a Cleric that Valdi would heal himself before praying the next day for new spells.

Except I was out of spells, there was nothing to convert, and he is being sparing this morning.

[Vidar the Red]

I read the articles on illusion, very good and in depth. It establishes a solid boundaries for handling illusions while still leaving open options for clever thinking. The big one to me is that an illusion "requires" an action, move or standard, in order to interact with it. Until they are interacted with there is no cause to disbelieve/make a saving throw.

In the case of the wolves, some of them seem to think they are real bears. Two at least do not appear to be afraid. I figured they could smell their scent (standard action?) so they were entitled to a will save and could have passed. The first thing I thought of that comes close to illusions and animals was TV. Some animals don't seem to care what is on the screen while others are fascinated. Either way there should be two will saves, one for the auditory sound and another for the figment images. Anyway, it all seems to have bought us some time at the least. Excellent thinking!

[Nexendia]

Thanks for reading the article.  I should have copied and pasted the relevant information but I was on my phone and in bed after another overnight shift and just wanted to sleep.

Of course any information in the article is usable at the DM's discretion. The main reason I posted about the article saying it requires an action was so they wouldn't attack.  If it requires a move then they either can't reach us for a bite or they can change their standard action to a 2nd move action and move toward us OR if it requires a standard action then again all they can do is move toward us.

I would like to add that intelligence should play a roll in how they react.  Creatures of animal intelligence don't have much of a frame of reference to decide how to react to an illusion.  I believe that even if they make their save they might still be cautious and their actions may depend upon weighing whether or not we were worth the risk.  Are they hungry enough to take the chance?  I don't know what the food situation is for a forest but it shouldn't be too bad unless something else was going on.  

I would also like to add that an insect should be in an even worse position to figure out what to do with an illusion.  Because even with a successful save they would see a ghostly image if the object.

[DM Dougfan]

Animals and insects also see things differently than humans do. How does that factor into illusions with infrared or ultraviolet vision and compound eyes?

[Vidar the Red]

Insects are an interesting group to deal with concerning illusions.  If I am correct, as in the case with mantises, they see and react to movement which simplifies their brain processing power.  I could see an insect either being exceptionally susceptible to illusions because of their simple mindedness or incredibly difficult to influence for the same reason.  Either way the best way to handle them, in my humble opinion, is use an action to deal with illusions the same as other creatures.  As long as a creature has a wisdom score it should be receptive to an illusion and it is only fair in game terms.  At the core of illusions, proof of disbelief is on the viewer and not the caster, even something completely obnoxious in a given setting would realistically cause a viewer of an illusion to pause for a moment.  For example, I know magic illusions aren't real but I am out for a 2 mile jog when all of the sudden I see a psychic tandem war elephant in front of me.  I am going to stop and react in some fashion.

[DM Vitkyng]

Insects are an interesting group to deal with concerning illusions.  If I am correct, as in the case with mantises, they see and react to movement which simplifies their brain processing power.  I could see an insect either being exceptionally susceptible to illusions because of their simple mindedness or incredibly difficult to influence for the same reason.  Either way the best way to handle them, in my humble opinion, is use an action to deal with illusions the same as other creatures.  As long as a creature has a wisdom score it should be receptive to an illusion and it is only fair in game terms.  At the core of illusions, proof of disbelief is on the viewer and not the caster, even something completely obnoxious in a given setting would realistically cause a viewer of an illusion to pause for a moment.  For example, I know magic illusions aren't real but I am out for a 2 mile jog when all of the sudden I see a psychic tandem war elephant in front of me.  I am going to stop and react in some fashion.

Exactly how many actions does it take to question your sanity.  Or your doctor to say the new meds are making you hallucinate. Or to call your dealer to say they gave you bad drugs.

[Vidar the Red]

Insects are an interesting group to deal with concerning illusions.  If I am correct, as in the case with mantises, they see and react to movement which simplifies their brain processing power.  I could see an insect either being exceptionally susceptible to illusions because of their simple mindedness or incredibly difficult to influence for the same reason.  Either way the best way to handle them, in my humble opinion, is use an action to deal with illusions the same as other creatures.  As long as a creature has a wisdom score it should be receptive to an illusion and it is only fair in game terms.  At the core of illusions, proof of disbelief is on the viewer and not the caster, even something completely obnoxious in a given setting would realistically cause a viewer of an illusion to pause for a moment.  For example, I know magic illusions aren't real but I am out for a 2 mile jog when all of the sudden I see a psychic tandem war elephant in front of me.  I am going to stop and react in some fashion.

Exactly how many actions does it take to question your sanity.  Or your doctor to say the new meds are making you hallucinate. Or to call your dealer to say they gave you bad drugs.

Me personally? My sanity is always under question so... 24hrs : I don't trust doctors so the only action taken was listening : My drug dealer is on speed dial so that's a move action to retrieve the phone and a standard action to enter my password and make the call, and then wait for reception so that has to be a full-round-action at very the least!  But they all required some sort of action

[Nexendia]

It's also important to point out that not all illusions affect the mind.  The Figments created by Silent Image are basically extremely realistic holograms and are not mind-affecting.  All undead are immune to Mind-Affecting spells, not Illusions in general. Figments (like Illusory Wall) fool the senses, not the mind.  Some DM's for whatever reason can't seem to wrap their head around this and insist that all illusions are mind-affecting which just isn't true.  So normally Illusions can be quite useful but it all comes down to how the DM interprets them in their game.

As for animals and insects, I think for simplicity a save throw would be enough.  But in the age of the internet the Player or DM can look up what kind of senses each creature has and could decide on a case by case basis how well they could see through the Illusion.  

To Vidar's point, if suddenly a 'psychic tandem war elephant' steps out from the bushes you're going to pause a moment to at the very least wonder, WTF!  So I personally agree that it should take an action unless they are blind or have some kind of unusual supernatural perception that is always active.  But even an animal with scent has to take a moment to sniff the air.

[DM Dougfan]

Hmmm...

Suddenly, A Psychic Tandem War Elephant appears, gun-tusks blazing...

[Vidar the Red]

I will be away next week starting Tuesday. Posting will most likely be delayed at the least.