[OOC] Return to the Rusty Rat

[Toot]

No, I believe RAI are pretty clear.

Woodland Stride:  A druid may move through any sort of undergrowth (such as natural thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and similar terrain) at her normal speed and without taking damage or suffering any other impairment. However, thorns, briars, and overgrown areas that have been magically manipulated to impede motion still affect her.

Trackless Step:  A druid leaves no trail in natural surroundings and cannot be tracked. She may choose to leave a trail if so desired.

There is no mention that the Druid must choose anything.  Whatever undergrowth (that hasn't been magically manipulated to impede motion) the druid moves through doesn't cause any damage to the druid, doesn't slow him down and the druid leaves no trail.  I have read in Sage Advice that basically, the grass Druids steps on just spring back up, branches he bends while passing return exactly how they were before they were bent.  If crawling is going to become a problem then Toot will squat but I don't see any restriction on crawling because that's how some animals move.  To say, you can woodland stride but not when you're a snake does not seem to be RAW or RAI.

[DM Surranó]

@Lugar - Well, replace "subtle" with "gentle". I mean in terms affecting vegetation. But you also have a point about size.

@Toot - I mean that RAW doesn't mention a "specific" way of movement but does this omission mean that "any kind of movement"? I think it's more like the druid can find the ideal way to move through. I respectfully question whether the Sage meant to write "magically" spring back up? Because that would mean these are Su or Sp but no, they are Ex. It's like if you are really good at cooking then you can cook a decent stew, given at least mediocre ingredients and conditions. But can you do it without salt and with a single pot that has a large hole on the bottom? Or can you do it without making fire? Does that make sense?

[Portho Nihilbuck]

About crawling I think RAI for woodland stride and trackless step is that the druid can choose a way to pass, e.g.by avoiding soft soil or stepping on grass that remains laid on the ground, or carefully moving harmful briar out of the way. Crawling is not that subtle or graceful.

So, generally, whatever makes sense. Crawling may make sense on hard ground covered with nothing but the most enduring moss but not on a grassland.

What do you all think?

Tapatalkkal küldve az én ALE-L21 eszközömről

I disagree on two points.  
1. - Hunters and snipers usually crawl to slowly approach their targets. In dense growth it is often the BEST way to be stealthy.
2. - Woodlan stride specifically states: 

druid may move through any sort of undergrowth (such as natural thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and similar terrain)

It does NOT state that the druid cannot use alternate forms of movement.

[DM Surranó]

1. Agree about stealth but in my reading it's not about "approaching" unnoticed but "leaving" unnoticed. i.e. you may be visible and may make noise but whoever comes after you won't be able to follow your *tracks*.
2. Yes, this is the question whether it means "all forms of movement". Sounds pretty magical to me.

[Lugar]

I'll be away this weekend and most likely unable to post. Please don't piss off the sarkany or any multi headed dragons like Tiamat while I'm gone!

[Toot]

1. Agree about stealth but in my reading it's not about "approaching" unnoticed but "leaving" unnoticed. i.e. you may be visible and may make noise but whoever comes after you won't be able to follow your *tracks*.
2. Yes, this is the question whether it means "all forms of movement". Sounds pretty magical to me.

Extraordinary Abilities (Ex)

Extraordinary abilities are nonmagical, though they may break the laws of physics. They are not something that just anyone can do or even learn to do without extensive training.

Toot doesn't have Pass without Trace, he has an ability called:

Trackless Step (Ex)

Starting at 3rd level, a druid leaves no trail in natural surroundings and cannot be tracked. She may choose to leave a trail if so desired.

This doesn't say he creates tracks that quickly fade.  It says he "leaves no trail."  None.  Zero. Zilch.  In other words it breaks the laws of physics.

As for Pass Without Trace, I think it does exactly what it says it does.  There is a spell called PWT that says:

 The subject or subjects can move through any type of terrain and leave neither footprints nor scent. Tracking the subjects is impossible by nonmagical means.

[Portho Nihilbuck]

1. Agree about stealth but in my reading it's not about "approaching" unnoticed but "leaving" unnoticed. i.e. you may be visible and may make noise but whoever comes after you won't be able to follow your *tracks*.
2. Yes, this is the question whether it means "all forms of movement". Sounds pretty magical to me.

Extraordinary Abilities (Ex)

Extraordinary abilities are nonmagical, though they may break the laws of physics. They are not something that just anyone can do or even learn to do without extensive training.

Toot doesn't have Pass without Trace, he has an ability called:

Trackless Step (Ex)

Starting at 3rd level, a druid leaves no trail in natural surroundings and cannot be tracked. She may choose to leave a trail if so desired.

This doesn't say he creates tracks that quickly fade.  It says he "leaves no trail."  None.  Zero. Zilch.  In other words it breaks the laws of physics.

As for Pass Without Trace, I think it does exactly what it says it does.  There is a spell called PWT that says:

 The subject or subjects can move through any type of terrain and leave neither footprints nor scent. Tracking the subjects is impossible by nonmagical means.

Which is what I have, and it IS a Su ability

[DM Surranó]

Torin leaves 35 (ooc - 35 is not a typo  ) feet from SG and says: - You have to stay so close.

It's Shield Other, right? Range is 40ft so guessing you want to leave a 5ft space "just in case."
I assume you both realised that the first two of the three benefits (deflection AC and resistance save) don't add to (overlap with) Giant's other items so it's only sharing the damage that takes true effect.

[Torin]

Sure, but close range is 45 for caster at lvl 8.

[DM Surranó]

Correct. Forgot that your PrC gives you +1 CL