[OOC] Return to the Rusty Rat

[Lugar]

I think this is an awesome idea, so I hate bringing this up, if an animal companion has more than 2 INT then it no longer is considered an animal and disqualifies it from being an animal companion. Similar to the awaken spell. But rules are just guidelines anyway

[Lugar]

Lugar didn't calculate with Wand of CG. So, everyone has got another 450gp.

Summary: 31739gp / head  (+ 1 vial / team)

I didn't check but I guess Lugar didn't calculate with the Wand of Missiles taken by Murkatos.

@DM: Is the sword change his size if a spell enlarges his wielder?

Once again, please quote my name properly otherwise I will miss some, if not most, of your questions.
Enlarge Person resizes "All equipment worn or carried". SoL is an artifact so it could be an exception. You won't know until you try.

31,289 gp
-13,500 = Ring of Blinking (50charges) 1/2 price ,If DM allows
-17,155 = Drow Cleaver +3 Keen Mithril Battle Axe
- 1,205 = +1 Darkwood Buckler

You are correct, each and every item deviating in the slightest bit from those described in Core must be DM approved. And yes, in this case I approve the RoB, 50 charges. Note that Telekinesis is lvl5 so it should be 9x5x1,800/2 = 18,900gp but this time I will let you use the half of the DMG price (13,500gp).
Forgot "mithril" from drow cleaver price. Also made a note about weight (I believe normal battle axes have wooden shafts but this one is pure mithril so a bit more than half the normal weight). The new price is 34,010gp (17,005 to keep which is less than what you got... I think you figured 32/2=17 ;P )
The darkwood buckler is just a name, in reality it's a light wooden shield, just in case you are about to wear it while using something two-handed. Thus, a small heavy shield can be used as a medium light shield with readjusted straps. Murkatos can make this adjustment for 20gp. (half repair cost)
Torin is also correct, Murkatos price would be half so theoretically you could sell Portho's shield for 1257/2 and have Murkatos make a buckler for 1205/2 (net gain 26gp) but Murkatos will be fully booked by Giant's request and can't squeeze it in today. Still, if you leave the money for him he'll work on it while you are away.

I would love to try out the daggers, maybe he could buy them at a later stage in-game?  The axe was the next best thing for a dwarf, if no one else wanted it.

If nobody is willing to "buy" the daggers they'll have to be sold. Means, no guarantees you'll ever get them back, and even then you lost half the price (sell for 25k rebuy for 50k!)

I'm thinking ring of protection or headband of intellect. If there is a bunch of gold lying around, I would really love to get a ring of wizardry. How much do we get if we don't sell the light sword?

Please post equipment requests here, not in character concepts thread. You get the figures by Lugar, possibly adjusted by Torin, like, 31k-some-hundred gp.
*BUT* that's not yours for the taking, sorry. Your share of the treasure is included in your level-up gear... that, and your life.
If you are talking about buying a new headband or a new ring go ahead and do it at a full price.
Later on, you have the option for upgrades, e.g. headband +2 to +4:
a) sell for 2k, buy for 16k = 14k. Time: immediately.
b) upgrade for 12k. Time: 24 hours, meaning you have to leave the headband behind.
I can't find your latest sheet, can you please send the link again?

Thank you.  Wow my math is bad!  I'll blame it on my State's education system and not on my math acumen. When my kids brought home Singapore Math, I was like, WTF!  Although somewhere in life I learned that 1+1=5 over ten years of marriage and many babies later .  Or as one of my math teachers said, "1+1=3, you'll understand when you are older."

Important question, which I hope this would be disclosed at sale, how many rounds does the RoB last per use? 5 rounds or 7 rounds?

So Lugar can buy / trade for Portho's shield?  If Portho is willing to gift it, then the cost for adjusting straps is only 20 gp? So Lugar saves 1,185 gp?

He also saves another 150 gp on the mithril axe.  I feel I should pay Portho for the buckler, adding to the little gnome's purse.

Can Merri or Shunna put an Arcane mark on the sold items???? We Will get them back! Mwahahaha, Evil laughter!

[Portho Nihilbuck]

Lugar didn't calculate with Wand of CG. So, everyone has got another 450gp.

Summary: 31739gp / head  (+ 1 vial / team)

I didn't check but I guess Lugar didn't calculate with the Wand of Missiles taken by Murkatos.

@DM: Is the sword change his size if a spell enlarges his wielder?

Once again, please quote my name properly otherwise I will miss some, if not most, of your questions.
Enlarge Person resizes "All equipment worn or carried". SoL is an artifact so it could be an exception. You won't know until you try.

31,289 gp
-13,500 = Ring of Blinking (50charges) 1/2 price ,If DM allows
-17,155 = Drow Cleaver +3 Keen Mithril Battle Axe
- 1,205 = +1 Darkwood Buckler

You are correct, each and every item deviating in the slightest bit from those described in Core must be DM approved. And yes, in this case I approve the RoB, 50 charges. Note that Telekinesis is lvl5 so it should be 9x5x1,800/2 = 18,900gp but this time I will let you use the half of the DMG price (13,500gp).
Forgot "mithril" from drow cleaver price. Also made a note about weight (I believe normal battle axes have wooden shafts but this one is pure mithril so a bit more than half the normal weight). The new price is 34,010gp (17,005 to keep which is less than what you got... I think you figured 32/2=17 ;P )
The darkwood buckler is just a name, in reality it's a light wooden shield, just in case you are about to wear it while using something two-handed. Thus, a small heavy shield can be used as a medium light shield with readjusted straps. Murkatos can make this adjustment for 20gp. (half repair cost)
Torin is also correct, Murkatos price would be half so theoretically you could sell Portho's shield for 1257/2 and have Murkatos make a buckler for 1205/2 (net gain 26gp) but Murkatos will be fully booked by Giant's request and can't squeeze it in today. Still, if you leave the money for him he'll work on it while you are away.

I would love to try out the daggers, maybe he could buy them at a later stage in-game?  The axe was the next best thing for a dwarf, if no one else wanted it.

If nobody is willing to "buy" the daggers they'll have to be sold. Means, no guarantees you'll ever get them back, and even then you lost half the price (sell for 25k rebuy for 50k!)

I'm thinking ring of protection or headband of intellect. If there is a bunch of gold lying around, I would really love to get a ring of wizardry. How much do we get if we don't sell the light sword?

Please post equipment requests here, not in character concepts thread. You get the figures by Lugar, possibly adjusted by Torin, like, 31k-some-hundred gp.
*BUT* that's not yours for the taking, sorry. Your share of the treasure is included in your level-up gear... that, and your life.
If you are talking about buying a new headband or a new ring go ahead and do it at a full price.
Later on, you have the option for upgrades, e.g. headband +2 to +4:
a) sell for 2k, buy for 16k = 14k. Time: immediately.
b) upgrade for 12k. Time: 24 hours, meaning you have to leave the headband behind.
I can't find your latest sheet, can you please send the link again?

Thank you.  Wow my math is bad!  I'll blame it on my State's education system and not on my math acumen. When my kids brought home Singapore Math, I was like, WTF!  Although somewhere in life I learned that 1+1=5 over ten years of marriage and many babies later .  Or as one of my math teachers said, "1+1=3, you'll understand when you are older."

Important question, which I hope this would be disclosed at sale, how many rounds does the RoB last per use? 5 rounds or 7 rounds?

So Lugar can buy / trade for Portho's shield?  If Portho is willing to gift it, then the cost for adjusting straps is only 20 gp? So Lugar saves 1,185 gp?

He also saves another 150 gp on the mithril axe.  I feel I should pay Portho for the buckler, adding to the little gnome's purse.

Can Merri or Shunna put an Arcane mark on the sold items???? We Will get them back! Mwahahaha, Evil laughter!

Portho was thinking just LOANING you the buckler.  If you pay 20gp you can use it until he has saved enough to get it animated like he wanted (that will cost 8000gp and is beyond Murkatos skill, it is 12th level enchantment).  When I have enough gp to get that done it would be a given that Lugar should have enough GP to replace the shield with his own. In the meantime I am not letting the shield go to waste at the bottom of my haversack. It's a 'win-win'.   Lugar has the extra funds to spend on other items that way.

[Toot]

I was doing some thinking.  I would like to create a custom item.  It will be a headband of Intellect +2 with 1 (maybe more) ranks in Speak Language.  To add ONE skill rank to an item that already has magic costs: 100gp x 1.5 = 150gp's.  Add that to the cost of the Headband of Intellect for a total of 2150gp's.  Then I would like to give this item to Boo.  This would give Boo the ability to understand the language but not speak it because he doesn't have vocal cords.  

I suppose I could just make a skill headband that only cost 100gp's to allow Boo to understand Common.  For that cost I might as well add a few languages.  But the point of the +2 to intellect is it would allow him to actually understand what you were saying.  If he just had Animal Intelligence of 1-2, knowing a language wouldn't change Boo's animal behavior.

Then there is >>This<< item from Pathfinder which does allow an animal to speak.  Which if allowed Toot could add the +2 to intelligence to it for 3000gp's.

Cool idea, except wouldn't the Headband of intellect be 4000gp +150gp?

Ooops, Just fixed it.  

I think this is an awesome idea, so I hate bringing this up, if an animal companion has more than 2 INT then it no longer is considered an animal and disqualifies it from being an animal companion.  Similar to the awaken spell.  But rules are just guidelines anyway

Actually, I've been doing some checking and apparently there are no RAW.  BUT I did find >>this<<  And on every board I've read to get other points of view, pretty much everyone thinks it should work.  I do know that this link is from the Pathfinder site but since 3.5 isn't around anymore it's all we have to go by.   

Also temporary boosts are a little different than permanent boosts.  For example, if a wizard puts on a headband of intellect he doesn't suddenly get a bunch of skill points that go away when you take the hat off.  That's why I mentioned adding skill point enhancement magic to the headband so Boo COULD learn a language.  He would never be able to speak it even if the intelligence boost was permanent because he's just not capable of making the sound of speech.  Though an animal affected by the Awaken spell would become a Magical beast and could speak a language.

Of course I have always said the DM get's the final word.  But come on, so far we have 2 + 1 (me) players that think it's a cool/awesome idea!  

[Toot]

Portho was thinking just LOANING you the buckler.  If you pay 20gp you can use it until he has saved enough to get it animated like he wanted (that will cost 8000gp and is beyond Murkatos skill, it is 12th level enchantment).

Yeah, I almost bought an animated shield too! Then it would be always floating around him no matter what form Toot was current wildshaped into. But I figured the +9 to his Armor Class plus whatever the animal's Natural armor, Size and Dex mods would be enough for now.

[DM Surranó]

Total price calculation of multi-purpose items

The three-year-old child's lemma applies:



In other words, the most expensive items scales up by the largest factor.
Thus, Torin's example of Prot+Invi is 38,000gp and Toot's idea about the headband of Int with skill would be at least 6,100gp (unless you can convince me that Int and language are "multiple similar abilities") but see below.

Of Intelligent Animals and Speech

The rule "no creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher can be an animal" suggests that you can cast Fox's Cunning on the enemy's animal (druid, ranger, even paladin's warhorse) and thus break the bond between the no-longer-animal and its master. Another possible interpretation is that the spell simply doesn't have an effect. Still, I'd say that the spell has an effect and the animal remains an animal Thus, Toot's findings about PF familiars is something I can accept but this is for this purpose only and not as generic stuff about granting skill points without restrictions. Remember though that Boo must wear the item continuously and you must teach him how to speak.

Speak Languages is a skill that grants you one language per rank and not per skill point spent, let alone competence bonus granted, and this latter thing is what skill items do. So sorry, no item will grant you a rank in a skill and as such, no language: Boo has to learn it, one skill point with every HD increase. And guess what; bears don't treat this skill as class skill, and, actually, only bards and some prestige classes (like thaumaturgists and loremasters) do. So Toot may also need to revise the skill points spent on those languages...

The Circlet of Speaking sounds like an interesting item and it appears as a gauntlet in Crichton's Congo. The prerequisite of using that item is actually the ability to use sign language which happens to be a rank already spent on speak language for that matter...

But getting back to conferring skills to any human being; I'm not convinced that any skill can be magically conferred to any being. Like, imagine +20 climb on an animated teflon-coated orb (read: zero friction on any surface).

Of Retail Prices and Shoplifting

Wands with partial charges are randomly found, not sold, at least not in "this" shop. You may find some on the market but without warranties. Both the spell and the number of charges will be random.

Upgrading wondrous items works but takes time, e.g. PoW +2 to +4 costs 12k. The immediate solution is to sell yours and buy a new one, costs 14k.

RoB lasts for 7 rounds since item CL is 7.

Adjusting Portho's shield for Lugar's use needs to be reversed if Portho wants to use it again, even if in animated form. That reversal will cost another 20gp of course.

Arcane marks are free to be put on anything, EXCEPT nobody would buy an arcane marked item.

Of Ridiculously High Armor Class

A note on Toot's +9 AC. I'm guessing it comes from:
- Wis increase 23 to 24 on level 8
- Ioun stone grants +2 for a total of 26
- Thus, monk's belt grants 8+1
The bad news is that both the stone and Toot's current PoW grant enhancement bonuses and as such they don't stack. So maybe some other place to put your 8,000gp?

[Toot]

Speak Languages is a skill that grants you one language per rank and not per skill point spent, let alone competence bonus granted, and this latter thing is what skill items do. So sorry, no item will grant you a rank in a skill and as such, no language: Boo has to learn it, one skill point with every HD increase. And guess what; bears don't treat this skill as class skill, and, actually, only bards and some prestige classes (like thaumaturgists and loremasters) do. 

 
The Circlet of Speaking states:  "The creator of the item decides what language the circlet’s wearer can speak when she crafts the item (typically Common); once crafting is complete, this cannot be changed."

This would indicate that magic items can be crafted with a languages.  The magic item's rules state all you need to have is the skill to craft an item OR someone with you that has the skill.

So Toot may also need to revise the skill points spent on those languages...

I am aware that Languages cost 2 points for characters without Speak Language on their class list.  I have paid double.  The Mythweaver sheet automatically does the calculations.  So when you add a point to a Cross classed skill it adds TWO to your total number of skill points at the bottom of the skill list but only indicates 1 RANK on the skill itself.  It was a little confusing how they do it but that's the way the do it.  I can screen shot it for you if you wish for proof or you can test it yourself.  Just be sure to tick the box to indicate that it is a CC skill.

The Circlet of Speaking sounds like an interesting item and it appears as a gauntlet in Crichton's Congo. The prerequisite of using that item is actually the ability to use sign language which happens to be a rank already spent on speak language for that matter...

Yes, except that was a movie.  The circlet does not require sign language to use.

But getting back to conferring skills to any human being; I'm not convinced that any skill can be magically conferred to any being. Like, imagine +20 climb on an animated teflon-coated orb (read: zero friction on any surface).

Look up Epic rules.  There is a DC for everything including swimming up a waterfall.  Your teflon-coated orb could be a DC100 or DC1000 if you wanted.  Also, the skill bonus limit for non-epic items is +30.  

Of Ridiculously High Armor Class

A note on Toot's +9 AC. I'm guessing it comes from:
- Wis increase 23 to 24 on level 8
- Ioun stone grants +2 for a total of 26
- Thus, monk's belt grants 8+1 
The bad news is that both the stone and Toot's current PoW grant enhancement bonuses and as such they don't stack. So maybe some other place to put your 8,000gp?

Ooops my bad.  I thought the Ioun stone granted an insight bonus.  I will have to keep shopping.  Perhaps I might just sell my PoW because the Ioun stone doesn't merge with my body when I wild shape but the PoW does.  I would have to remove the PoW before wild shaping and then put it back on after I shaped.  But I can increase to bonus on the PoW.  Hmmmm....

[Silent Giant]

I must have missed the point what the platinum rings are good for. Guessing shield other or similar?

I'm a bit sad to see that RoB became so popular that you ditch effectively all the neat stuff you gathered. As it stands now the party keeps:
- Cleaver (Lugar)
- Wand of CG (Portho)
- Sword of Light (Portho)

The party sells:
- Green-white checkered kite shield - 170gp (a masterwork heavy steel shield)
- a rune-engraved halberd;
- a two-handed sword (large bastard sword) with jet black blade and a large ruby adorning the crossguard;
- a greatclub ending in a clenched fist of granite;
- a curved dagger, blue-ivory
- a curved dagger, red-black
- a yellow-hued chain mail;
- a small fur vest, grey-black striped. Toot and Giant agree that it looks like typical feline pattern and feels like the same. It doesn't show any signs of aging.

@DM: Yes, shield other spell.

I have thought about the balanced curved dagger he picked up first (blue-ivory) but it is too expensive. Other stuffs are unusable Can Muskatos convert the bastard sword into a double weapon?
Lugar, maybe we can share one RoB and keep the dagger?

Aren't you interested in? I think +4 dagger with keen ability can be useful against non-arcane and non-divine fleshy enemies (for example mind-flayers)

[DM Surranó]

CoS is PF, means not 3.5 core. This could be the end of the argument. Still, I take the effort to mention that--
- I don't know of any items in the 3.5 core that would confer you any language you don't speak already (apart from comprehend languages or tongues of course).
- If you calculated with two skill points that's fine. Just wanted to make sure.
- That movie is based on a novel that is based on a true story (except the gauntlet part I believe) but I mentioned it just for fun, not as any kind of argument about what magic can or cannot do.
- More likely the teflon orb would have a "racial" -100 to anything that involves any form of friction. And a negative natural armor.
- Dusty rose is +1 to AC for 5k. Just in case you'd feel unsafe with AC26 AC27 as it stands now. I don't think Wild Shape could be much higher. Your size bonus drops; your shield and armor bonuses drop; your dex bonus probably drops. If you can't wear the belt in your new form... let's not even think about that disaster

[Toot]

Sorry, daggers don't resize and since we are only using Core animals, the only animal he could turn into that could use it without penalty is a Baboon.  The stats on a Baboon are terrible.  And a +4 keen dagger still wouldn't do a lot of damage.  Most attacks (80%) would do an average of 6.5+strength and on a critical (20%) it would do on average 13+strengthx2.  Maybe if someone wants to borrow the money I could buy it for them.

Too bad there wasn't such a spell as >>Transfer Enchantment<<.  Then I would be like, yes please!