[OOC] Sweet Spoilerousness

[DM Surranó]

Can I reincarnate what comes out the other end?  It's still him, sort of....  [emoji14]

Or reincarnate the beefy vapors of his belch, sure thing.

[Portho Nihilbuck]

Dominate leaves no wriggle roiom, because of the telepathic link. Torin will do exactly as the caster wishes him to, despite ambiguities in teh verbal command.

[Portho Nihilbuck]

And the Circle of Pro from evil would suppress teh dominate person whenever Torin was ion the circle... which if Torin fails spellcraft on or no one tells him could get funny whenever he moves in or out of the circle.

[Portho Nihilbuck]

In regards to bard countersong.. as written i specifically only works on language based effects... those spells have Language based in the descriptor. Dominate person is NIOT language based, again the telepathic factor. Portho wil be trying to get away from Torin of course.. will post that in the main thread.

[Lugar]

And the Circle of Pro from evil would suppress teh dominate person whenever Torin was ion the circle... which if Torin fails spellcraft on or no one tells him could get funny whenever he moves in or out of the circle.

This.

[Torin]

I didn't read this thread, but I hope I could read it at tomorrow (I'm in another training in these days.)

First of all I think Torin get a new saving throw:

For example, if you order a subject to attack its ally, it almost certainly will get a saving throw to throw off the spell.

Rules of the Game

I put his second saving throw there. I hope it let close this thread and let things go back to the right way.
Will save [1d20+12] = 11+12 = 23

IMHO the DP's telepathy is works like a one way message spell, but it is going directly from the caster speaking centre (in his/her brain) to the victim listening centre and has got four direct button to be enable the language indipendent communication.

[Toot]

I could see an argument for it being against a chaotic good character's nature to attack an ally.

[DM Surranó]

I can accept such an argument but not because of the word "ally". I feel some difference between "kill the gnome" and "kill the orc" or even better, "kill the duergar" when talking about Torin's nature.
And since this is obscure and I'm willing to adjust my interpretation of "against his nature"' I wrote above that what the villain said is not necessarily the command he gave and if we agree that this command will trigger a new save then let me roll an Int check for the villain against DC 5 to come up with a command that's not against the average CG dwarven cleric's nature (note: the guy may not know Torin's alignment but as someone with more than a couple ranks in spellcraft he happens to recognise CG beasties when they are summoned, hence knows the cleric can't be lawful and can't be evil).

So which one of the following commands do you think is against Torin's nature and why?
- Kill the gnome (three votes against)
- Kill the half-orc
- Kill the duergar
- Prevent the gnome completely in moving, including lips, eyes, and the diaphragm under his armor.
Note that in the latter case, there's no order to attack even though accomplishing the task may infer several grapple checks or attack rolls. (and the simplest way to accomplish this is to kill the gnome right away. Actually it would be the only way if the command ended with "including his heart")
Also note that while Torin certainly knows what a diaphragm is, it's not even necessary since telepathy ensures that you know that you have to stop the periodic rise and fall of the hairy skin on the chest.

BTW I hope Portho doesn't take this personally that he's the subject of the order. I don't intend on killing any PCs and will disclose detailed explanation after the villain is (hopefully) defeated (hopefully) once and for all.

[Lugar]

Torin's actions are up to Torin. His alignment is a loose representation of his code of conduct. Furthermore, to base his treatment of All gnomes or Duergar, or Orcs on general racial enmity isn't the end all be all of his actions. All that aside, it's a game with rules modeled on fantasy... The creature commanded him "kill the gnome" and it is up to Torin to decide how, not if. Like most things, if he is commanded to do anything against his nature then he should have the opportunity to resist. In game, Torin already took a swing at Portho so his intent to kill him was established. Torin is a strong willed character and I think he will break free of the creature's control given the chance.

If Lugar can recognize " mind control" he will definitely go after the creature with a vengeance, given his back story. Mind flayers and stuff

Did Torin add his Dwarven defense against spells to resist the dominate person?

[DM Surranó]

Torin's swing at Portho was assumed by Portho himself and confirmed by me before Torin brought up the Skip Williams quote of "almost certainly" granting a new save which he took for "certain". I'd like to keep it nice and tidy (from rules perspective) and enjoyable all the same (from roles perspective). Unfortunately it was a late decision from me to consider a different command and I could've played it better (read: more enjoyable for the players -- not necessarily the characters... -- and more to the goal of the villain).

What you write about "racial enmity" is actually what I can accept as being "against nature" more than a few-hours acquaintance (a few days in Portho's case). Come on, what did Lugar aid Torin in, aside from giving him a lift? For someone so full of suspicions whenever facing someone new, especially a member of a hated race, I'm not sure that would make him an "ally". Do you know the actual meaning of the drow phrase closest to "friend"? It translates literally to "temporary business partner".

About vengeance; what form of vengeance do you plan to exact on Cloak?

About dwarven defense; if you mean racial saves; no since it's not a spell (nor a spell-like ability: it's supernatural) but it would not have saved his butt anyway as he rolled a natural 1... (he needed a 4 with DD or 7 without)