[OOC] Return to the Rusty Rat

[Torin]

In the next level we should increase that ape to a huge monkey  and have 3d6+10 damage.

[Toot]

I'm picturing Mighty Joe Young rolling around dodging blows and punching with his feet while upside down.  Oh and a shimmering field around him just pissing people off, his Charisma is still low. ;P

:p

I don't want to push the AC bonus too much.  The DM might make Toot act out the end scene to the original King Kong!!

@Torin oh man would that work?  Does the druids type actually turn to Animal?  If so that would be awesome.  If it's 1 animal per 2 levels could the animals from the pouch be affected too? (Name slips my mind right now)

[Torin]

@Torin oh man would that work?  Does the druids type actually turn to Animal?  If so that would be awesome.  If it's 1 animal per 2 levels could the animals from the pouch be affected too? (Name slips my mind right now)

It's depend on our DM. Before the revisited Polymorphing rules the Wild Shape was much more different and maybe more powerfull too:

Wild Shape (Su): At 5th level, a druid gains the ability to turn herself into any Small or Medium animal and back again once per day. Her options for new forms include all creatures with the animal type. This ability functions like the polymorph spell, except as noted here. The effect lasts for 1 hour per druid level, or until she changes back. Changing form (to animal or back) is a standard action and doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity.
The form chosen must be that of an animal the druid is familiar with.
A druid loses her ability to speak while in animal form because she is limited to the sounds that a normal, untrained animal can make, but she can communicate normally with other animals of the same general grouping as her new form. (The normal sound a wild parrot makes is a squawk, so changing to this form does not permit speech.)
A druid can use this ability more times per day at 6th, 7th, 10th, 14th, and 18th level, as noted on Table: The Druid. In addition, she gains the ability to take the shape of a Large animal at 8th level, a Tiny animal at 11th level, and a Huge animal at 15th level.
The new form’s Hit Dice can’t exceed the character’s druid level.
At 12th level, a druid becomes able to use wild shape to change into a plant creature with the same size restrictions as for animal forms. (A druid can’t use this ability to take the form of a plant that isn’t a creature.)
At 16th level, a druid becomes able to use wild shape to change into a Small, Medium, or Large elemental (air, earth, fire, or water) once per day. These elemental forms are in addition to her normal wild shape usage. In addition to the normal effects of wild shape, the druid gains all the elemental’s extraordinary, supernatural, and spell-like abilities. She also gains the elemental’s feats for as long as she maintains the wild shape, but she retains her own creature type.
At 18th level, a druid becomes able to assume elemental form twice per day, and at 20th level she can do so three times per day. At 20th level, a druid may use this wild shape ability to change into a Huge elemental.

I put my saved SRD 3.5 to here.

[DM Surranó]

Simply put, assuming the animal type would imply, among others, that the druid's Int would drop to 2. And this is not RAI, nor is Animal Growth.
An interesting question, though, whether you can exploit Enlarge Person in that case, considering that a wild shaped humanoid druid is still a humanoid. ("unfortunately" (*evil dm cackle*) ruling out Toot who's a fey, but this also means not being subject to charm person, dominate person, etc.)

EDIT:
There seems to be a consensus in PF that polymorph-like effects (wild shape included) do not stack with any size changing magic. So effectively, you become immune to offensive size change attempts as well.
For 3.5, at least Enlarge Person states

Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack, (...)

The wording seems to be quite proprietary, e.g. could a medium character turn into a medium badger (wild shape into small badger then enlarge person)? Or could reduce work the other direction, turning into a tiny badger, or even a diminutive cat (at level 11)?
There's some debate, though, whether transforming to a large animal counts as "increase size" at all. Some argue that you change from your normal self to a normal animal.
But taking this wording now I create precedence by stating that in this game

Multiple effects that alter your size in any manner don't stack, regardless how the size is altered.

This does not rule out a humanoid altering self to some medium creature then applying Enlarge Person.
This does not rule out illusions either, e.g. a three feet tall character may appear to be six feet tall, then enlarged-- still will appear as six feet tall and will actually be six feet tall.

[Toot]

OOC @Toot - oops, I missed your post... Just in case it didn't occur to some, wearing a magical helm necessitates removal of any other magical headgear, like, hats of disguise... So this may have been the first time @ Shanna Rendin saw your true form.

I had planned for Toot to reveal himself earlier because we have at least one person in the group that's not the sharpest battleaxe in the armory; that's not the brightest candle in the box; not the sharpest marble; Dumber than a box of rocks; If brains were dynamite, he would be hard pressed to blow his nose; He could double the collective IQ of Waterdeep by just leaving the city; Slower than a... ummm...  I think you get my point.    So Toot really doubts his secret would last very long anyways so he planned to let the women know.  This would have happened before the arrived in Fairyland because he wouldn't want to get stuck in gods knows where with two people who could want to step on him like he's a bug!  So if you will allow it, I'd like to let them know before we go through the portal.

Simply put, assuming the animal type would imply, among others, that the druid's Int would drop to 2. And this is not RAI, nor is Animal Growth.
An interesting question, though, whether you can exploit Enlarge Person in that case, considering that a wild shaped humanoid druid is still a humanoid. ("unfortunately" (*evil dm cackle*) ruling out Toot who's a fey, but this also means not being subject to charm person, dominate person, etc.)

Well then, I guess Toot will have to buy himself some potions of Expansion!     

And Enlarge Person can be made Permanent... SG...    I'm not sure how DM Surrano handles casting spells with XP components but when making magic items another person can offer the xp's or spells as long as they are there with the creator.  So to me it makes sense that you can do the same with Permanency.  You sacrifice the 500xp at the time of the spell's casting instead of the Wizard then pay for the Permanency spell itself.  Or you could pay a wizard to use his own xp's on you and I think the going rate for this is 25:1.  That would be about 12,500gp's plus the cost of the Permanency.

[Torin]

Simply put, assuming the animal type would imply, among others, that the druid's Int would drop to 2. And this is not RAI, nor is Animal Growth.

NOT Revisited Polymorph Spell:

Polymorph
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Willing living creature touched
Duration: 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
This spell functions like alter self, except that you change the willing subject into another form of living creature. The new form may be of the same type as the subject or any of the following types: aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, plant, or vermin. The assumed form can’t have more Hit Dice than your caster level (or the subject’s HD, whichever is lower), to a maximum of 15 HD at 15th level. You can’t cause a subject to assume a form smaller than Fine, nor can you cause a subject to assume an incorporeal or gaseous form. The subject’s creature type and subtype (if any) change to match the new form.
Upon changing, the subject regains lost hit points as if it had rested for a night (though this healing does not restore temporary ability damage and provide other benefits of resting; and changing back does not heal the subject further). If slain, the subject reverts to its original form, though it remains dead.
The subject gains the Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores of the new form but retains its own Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. It also gains all extraordinary special attacks possessed by the form but does not gain the extraordinary special qualities possessed by the new form or any supernatural or spell-like abilities.
Incorporeal or gaseous creatures are immune to being polymorphed, and a creature with the shapechanger subtype can revert to its natural form as a standard action.

[Toot]

Well I know you've made up your mind so there's not much point discussing it any further BUT I'd like to add a couple of points.  

I've been googling the question and most people believe in 3.0 you couldn't use Animal Growth but in 3.5 you can. I will have to do more research as to the reasons.  Enlarge Person should work if the Druid is a humanoid because in 3.5 you retain your original type.  So you could wildshape into a badger but you are still considered to be a humanoid.  None of this matters for this game because the DM has said you can't add size onto anything that increases your size.  But it's still something to look at for a regular game.

It seems the wildshape rules in Masters of the Wild are thought to be better than the 3.5 rules.  I haven't taken a look yet but I will because there's a druid in my RL game.  Unfortunately he does not play a druid very well because he relies on the rest of us to tell him what to turn into or cast.  It's quite annoying.

[Portho Nihilbuck]

Well then, I guess Toot will have to buy himself some potions of Expansion!     

Oh my gods. I totally forgot that Psionics could be considered core. And I forgot about dorje's.

DM Surrano what is your ruling on psionics, does it exist in your game?  And that leads to the second question, some GM's use a variant rule for magic/psionic transparency, meaning there is no seperate Psicraft v.Spell craft, or Use Psionic Device v. Use Magic Device. What is your take on this? Rules as written make psionics and magic seperate, but that has some huge repercussions, example Detect Magic/Dispel magic have no effect on psionics and visa versa. But the variant opens a HUGE door for me with yet another set of spell lists I have access to with UMD. 

What is your opinion?  I am good either decision, but would rather it was clear now before it ever comes up IC.

[Toot]

Well then, I guess Toot will have to buy himself some potions of Expansion!     

Oh my gods. I totally forgot that Psionics could be considered core. And I forgot about dorje's.

DM Surrano what is your ruling on psionics, does it exist in your game?  And that leads to the second question, some GM's use a variant rule for magic/psionic transparency, meaning there is no seperate Psicraft v.Spell craft, or Use Psionic Device v. Use Magic Device. What is your take on this? Rules as written make psionics and magic seperate, but that has some huge repercussions, example Detect Magic/Dispel magic have no effect on psionics and visa versa. But the variant opens a HUGE door for me with yet another set of spell lists I have access to with UMD. 

What is your opinion?  I am good either decision, but would rather it was clear now before it ever comes up IC.

There are quite a few nifty Psionic powers that would be awesome to have available.

[DM Surranó]

Briefly:

1. @Toot - revelations before the gate are OK. Please work together with @Shanna Rendin and @Merrinna Starsong to make sure it happened in a way that's accepted by all three involved players. (I don't care about the opinions of the rest )

2. @Toot, @Portho Nihilbuck - Sorry, psionics is not core. I particularly like it, the 3.0 variant better than the 3.5 variant, but I don't feel the need to introduce it as "rules available". That doesn't mean you can't use it as seasoning (purely roleplaying-wise).

3. @Torin - the proper part of the quote is that no creature with the type "animal" can have an Int score higher than 2, so either the spell changes your type to animal or retains your Int, but not both. Alternatives being: you become a magical beast, or you can't morph into an animal in the first place.