[OOC] Return to the Rusty Rat

[Merrinna Starsong]

Oooohhhhh... the dreaded touch steak attack!


I can't make any rolls as I'm still waiting for unseen servant to fix my account.

[DM Surranó]

Grig ff ac is indeed incorrect in srd, thanks for pointing out.

Re Merri's note on his init... I typically use fractional init, like 10+7=17.07 but 15+2=17.02, reflecting the higher modifier tie break rule. Readied actions come 0.01 sooner and delayed actions come 1.00 later. So, the tiny elf comes at 13.12 (rolled a 1 but he's a fast little bastard) and Toot at 13.13.

However this whole ff thing is strange. For the readied action to be triggered you need some sign, any sign, like, turning around, or even shifting balance... Anything that looks like an intent to move. In game terms, it can be any free action, or maybe even not an action--meaning he's already acted, right? So practically the readied action comes between two of his actions thus Toot should have an init lower than his next round.

Realism aside, see what happens ic and Toot will come right before the fey next round.

[Toot]

Grig ff ac is indeed incorrect in srd, thanks for pointing out.

Re Merri's note on his init... I typically use fractional init, like 10+7=17.07 but 15+2=17.02, reflecting the higher modifier tie break rule. Readied actions come 0.01 sooner and delayed actions come 1.00 later. So, the tiny elf comes at 13.12 (rolled a 1 but he's a fast little bastard) and Toot at 13.13.

However this whole ff thing is strange. For the readied action to be triggered you need some sign, any sign, like, turning around, or even shifting balance... Anything that looks like an intent to move. In game terms, it can be any free action, or maybe even not an action--meaning he's already acted, right? So practically the readied action comes between two of his actions thus Toot should have an init lower than his next round.

Realism aside, see what happens ic and Toot will come right before the fey next round.

The SRD stated that a Readied action will interrupt his action.  So the Grig doesn't get a chance to do whatever he was going to do because Toot is too quick.  If you wish, consider the Grig has a 'Tell.'  It could be the grig glaces in a direction he plans to run; he looks down and to the right signaling a lie; he takes a deep breath; he holds his breath; he does something to indicate to Toot that he's being shifty so Toot tackles him.  

I imagine seeing usually scared little Toot suddenly diving on another creature and then proceed to roll around in the dirt until one of them ends up on top, or they get interrupted by the party telling them to stop right in the middle of Toot gnawing on the Grig's butt cheek and the Grig is poking Toot in the eye, could be quite amusing.  

[DM Surranó]

Oh. Interrupting an action. Thanks for the quote.
And yeah pretty much enlightening.

Tapatalkkal küldve az én ALE-L21 eszközömről

[DM Surranó]

A brief summary of what happened after this brief brainstorming about readying a partial charge and interrupting a character. The following explanation contains spoilers so read at your own risk.

About Myshnue

The creature the party faces is not a "stock" grig. It's originally a home-made fey, I just used grig as a kind of "template" to assess power level. I call these creatures "microelves."
Myshnue has a much higher dexterity than the average grig (meaning 18 + racial modifier = 26).
The description of this creature is revolving around one fact: he is fast. Like, crazy fast. Like, mind blowingly crazy fast. Thus, he has, among others, improved initiative, and he has an extraordinary ability similar to PF's Cheetah's Sprint that he can use to jump great distances with blazing speed.
He also has class levels (hint: what class levels may a character have if he attempts cutting a purse without the owner (an elf) noticing?).
Similar to grigs, the creature can become invisible and alter (not disguise) himself as a tiny elf (and only in that form).

Myshnue's approach (pre-surprise round) explained

Myshnue approached the party invisibly. AFAIK nobody has the power to see invisible and even Giant's blinking wouldn't achieve that feat, even though ethereal creatures are invisible on material.
He moved so silently that everyone missed him. For Boo, in particular, I rolled a natural 1 and decided that it would manifest in him being distracted by something in the water (this was just fluff, nothing more)
When he approached Merri and took a kind of offensive action (sleight of hands) his invisibility dropped. I rolled spot for everyone and only Toot noticed him. The extremely high Nature and Will rolls enabled the jermlaine (also fey on their own right) to notice the grig-like facial features (eyebrows resembling antennae) on the altered form and realised it must be a fey similar to grigs.
I also rolled a perception (wisdom) check for Merri to see if she notices being robbed but she failed.

Readied action vs flat-footed explained

First I considered that since Myshnue approached first he cannot be flat-footed in the first place but then decided, why not, especially because it gave a good opportunity to see how the fey druid of the party would react to a fey in a sylvan setting. So I called for initiatives.
Toot won initiative (14+3 vs 1+12) and decided to try the peaceful way of interaction but minimise risk by letting the creature get away so readied a standard action (partial charge) for the case "if the Grig (or so he thought) attempts to do anything aggressive or tries to escape".
The initiative of Myshnue came and he took three actions:
1. Speak (free)
2. Dismiss the spell (well. Thought it was a free action or no-action but apparently it's true only for concentration spells, otherwise it's a standard action.)
3. Escape by extraordinary jump (swift action).
Of these, the first two did not fulfil Toot's conditions specified for the readied partial charge but the third did.
Thus, the creature was not flat-footed (since he's already taken two actions in the surprise round) but had to suffer the consequences of the readied partial charge.
Note that even if he would've been flat-footed his class levels would've granted him to retain his full dexterity bonus. (fun fact: uncanny dodge doesn't say you are not flat-footed. It says you are flat-footed but you retain your dex bonus. I can see one difference here: you cannot make AOO while flat-footed, but there may be others.)

Grapple failure explained

Step 1. Toot approached and had to enter the creature's space. Normally, leaving a threatened square provokes AOO but since Myshnue is tiny, he doesn't threaten squares. However, entering a creature's space also triggers an AOO (question: for S/M/L/etc does this mean two AOO's if the defender has Combat Reflexes?). Do tell me if I'm wrong here. Anyway, I rolled a 5 and even with his finesse and size bonus and everything it's waaay too small to beat Toot's brand new AC (what, 25 when charging or so?)
Step 2. Touch attack. Now, Toot had to beat the touch AC which is 10+2(size)+8(dex). He failed, meaning he could not interrupt the action in time.
Step 3. It didn't come to pass but Toot's roll is correctly 16-6 = 10, would've been sufficient to beat Myshnue's roll of 17-8 = 9.
Note that I recalled that defender can select either dex or str for an opposed grapple check (Myshnue would have +3 instead of -8) but cannot find where this idea came from. First I thought it came from PF's CMD but there you add both.

My personal feelings about what happened (not spoiler)
First and foremost, I felt it looked as if the scene were rigged as I wrote my post. Toot confirmed that it wasn't just me seeing it this way
It would've been a fascinating outcome and I would've enjoyed it much if the two tiny creatures went down all hands and feet tangled up, biting butt cheeks as Toot wrote.
Also, I have the feeling that Myshnue is now in more dangerous situation, more depending on party decisions, than he would be while rolling around in the dirt, not technically, but due to the comical factor.
Let me see what you do next since it's party turn time. Well, for all those who rolled an Init of 14 or better (including Toot who comes at 13.13)

[Torin]

@Surrano: You wrote that: post your list here (if it is public) and write me a PM/email, but somehow I remembered post here OR write an email/PM. IMHO this is the typical way how our brain works in next time please try to use big capitals with color, see above.
About time tracking, ... : in our local group many of our DMs tried to push us  to do these, but this doesn't work nowdays we have a job, family, second job, ... and as we know this tracking is not the funniest part of the game

@Toot: You could modify the post owner if your accounts are linked together (a black arrow inside in a the white circle just after your name). If you modify your post before that then it cause a little mess (check this post ).

@Merrinna: You should roll in roll20.net. We use it for battles and rolls. If they fixed for you then you should use the unseenservant.com too.

I will finalize Torin's memorization before I read the IC chapter 2-3.

[DM Surranó]

On the same note; please ensure all of your sheets are updated with the level advancement and shopping; I believe I explicitly confirmed the final shopping list for all involved in a PM.
I will also roll initiative for Torin if he didn't have the time to catch up.

[DM Surranó]

@Silent Giant @Merrinna Starsong @Portho Nihilbuck can you please ensure that your unseenservant characters are added to campaign 375.

[Toot]

Toot has to modify his Magic items.  The QoE is useless so Toot has no need of it.  He also has no need of the Ioun Stone and he has a couple of items to sell (Armor and Shield) now he has the Monk's Belt.

This is my weekend to work.  I will try to get it done in the morning but I may be too tired.  I will get to it as soon as I can though.

[Shanna Rendin]

In the process of transferring Shanna's spellbook from unseenservant to her mythweavers sheet.