[OOC] Return to the Rusty Rat

[Torin]

and gishes; e.g. Alter Self: Troglodyte

aham Torin wants a Wand of Alter Self to himself

[Shanna Rendin]

I feel like gishes aren't anywhere close to as hyper-powered as Clerics and Druids are. Those two can, literally and easily, do everything and anything.

[Torin]

It's depend on which books are allowed by the DM, but with core druids are awesome, the clerics are also good but they really needs for Complete Divine.

I heard about a party (6 PCs) with full of druids in a RPG race. They win the competition cos nobody could stopped the 18 bears.

[DM Surranó]

Yeah. Heard about another challenge where six seventh-level druids were a close second behind a single githzerai with five classes.
The challenge was actually a way for me to figure out if, and how, a seventh level party of up to six members can defeat a specific construct that guards an armoury vault three feet underwater, with antimagic field protecting the only entrance.
Does it ring a bell for someone?
Guess what... the winning player is member of this party as well

[Shanna Rendin]

True, DMM makes clerics even better, but they still have plenty they can do without it.

[Lugar]

Advancing Rogue again. Is Lugar treated as a level 8 character or level 7 concerning ability bonuses / feats, because of his LA+1?

Answered my own question: It goes by hit die

- Your class for the new level: Rogue 5
- Your new feats: None (class feature gained 3d6 sneak attack)
- Your stat increase: None
- Your new / improved skills: +10 = +3 Hide, +7 Use Magic Device
- Your decision on HP: +(4+2) = 6HP

Am I correct that BaB and Saves are unchanged?

Is it too late to change which class to level? I've been looking at what and how to improve my character and am rethinking everything. We already have excellent spell casters, including a bard with a plethora of skills, but only one dedicated melee character. I think I want to go more melee as well and level up as Fighter instead. Is that permissible at this stage? If I'm correct, leveling in Fighter gives Lugar:

- Your class for the new level: Fighter 3
- Your new feats: None
- Your stat increase: None
- Your new / improved skills: +4 (Hide +4)
- Your decision on HP: +(7+2) = 9HP

Also +1 BaB giving Lugar 2 attacks at +6/+1and +1F /+1R/ +1W

I was thinking about buying a magic short bow/ longbow and Quiver of Elhonna but I don't know what the magic items we looted are yet. Lugar may focus on the magic Halberd or Battle Axe / shield combo through the Fighter specialties. Opinions?

[DM Surranó]

Last minute but I'm willing to allow this change. Please consider though that:
- Only your Ref save would increase (Fort and Ref don't add up because Rog and Ftr are different so only Ref increases on Ftr3; Will does add up so it doesn't increase on 7th level)
- Hide is a class skill for you in terms of rank cap but rank costs count by the class. I.e. if you advance as fighter you still need two skill points to gain one rank.
- You gain +1 bab and thus one more attack but give up +1d6 from your sneak damage.

All of these were of minor importance if I were in your place (but I am not). Thinking on long term;
- Would you prefer being the party scout / skillmonkey or a front line warrior?
- Is your role as a melee character to dish out lots of damage or to protect the casters?
- Would you like to have weapon spec sooner than improved uncanny dodge?

Also, you are now a pack of seven and if I were to build up battle tactics:
First row: Giant (heavy hitter), Lugar (also as a scout), Torin if an adamantine wall is needed (high AC and HP), Merri (sometimes)
Second row: Portho, Toot (nimble and relatively tough), Torin (most of the time)
Third row: Merri (often), Shanna (glass cannons)

Considering that Merri is more like a melee caster and that there are two flavours of summoners (a druid and a thaumaturgist) I would say that the front row may become quite crowded most of the time. Of course, we are yet to see how Merri proceeds with eldritch knighthood.
Which reminds me; new turn will be out in 8 hours (hopefully).

[DM Surranó]

and gishes; e.g. Alter Self: Troglodyte

aham Torin wants a Wand of Alter Self to himself

Guess you can have one from party wealth but you should figure out the numbers together.

[Toot]

Yeah. Heard about another challenge where six seventh-level druids were a close second behind a single githzerai with five classes.
The challenge was actually a way for me to figure out if, and how, a seventh level party of up to six members can defeat a specific construct that guards an armoury vault three feet underwater, with antimagic field protecting the only entrance.
Does it ring a bell for someone?
Guess what... the winning player is member of this party as well

You had mentioned that Torin had a well stocked character that defeated the Golem.  But may I remind you one tiny doodid took out the golem all by himself with just a couple of 3rd level spells.    But that was only because I could speak with them. 

I'm not sure what the fuss is about druids.  Given the right circumstance almost any class can be powerful.  Druids need space to turn into their best wildshapes.  Without space they are very limited.

[DM Surranó]

Oh yeah. Forgot Polar Toot from the list of optional melee characters.
Which reminds me. I think I saw some word about dire animals in wild shape but can't recall where and in what form (allowed? disallowed? conditional? specific to some prestige class?). A dire bat would certainly open new perspectives...