[OOC] Return to the Rusty Rat

[Torin]

A quick response; those in the vault can hear the conversation.

There is little "common knowledge" about planes. A character without ranks is likely to have heard about the four elemental planes and maybe the astral and ethereal planes but even their correlation is beyond "common" knowledge (means DC over 10) and thus needs ranks in Knowledge (Planes). Energy planes and outer planes are marginally "common" but for healers and summoners (respectively) their existence may be more common than for the rest of the population. The para-elemental, quasi-elemental and their connections (that there are several sets of inner planes and only one astral plane connecting all the outer planes; even the fact that there are inner and outer planes) are waaaay beyond common. The point where it gets all crazy high scholarship is when you try to explain to the average mortal how can you get from Toril's inner quasi-elemental plane of Radiance to an ethereal pocket connected to Oerth's inner para-elemental plane of ice using one of the less known transitional planes; how magic works there and how you pronounce runes nobody of the party has ever seen before, you included.

So Toot may know about the existence of the planes where he usually summons from (since they are not celestial or fiendish I'd say most of them are from Prime, barring elementals), and maybe about the source of negative and positive energy (though it's more like clerical part of divinity) but even telling this in a specific summoning case may be beyond his level of knowledge. Even thoqqua, one of his favourites is questionable. Fire? Earth? He has no idea about the para-elemental plane of magma.

Getting back to the original issue; Toot would not know about the actual traits of the energy planes and even if they were specifically described (which Mendor didn't do, only gave a vague description) he wouldn't realise that the librarian talked about the negative energy plane.

I found that the things were changed and our characters hear the conversation.
What knows Torin about these planes?

[Toot]

There is little "common knowledge" about planes. A character without ranks is likely to have heard about the four elemental planes and maybe the astral and ethereal planes but even their correlation is beyond "common" knowledge (means DC over 10) and thus needs ranks in Knowledge (Planes). Energy planes and outer planes are marginally "common" but for healers and summoners (respectively) their existence may be more common than for the rest of the population. The para-elemental, quasi-elemental and their connections (that there are several sets of inner planes and only one astral plane connecting all the outer planes; even the fact that there are inner and outer planes) are waaaay beyond common. The point where it gets all crazy high scholarship is when you try to explain to the average mortal how can you get from Toril's inner quasi-elemental plane of Radiance to an ethereal pocket connected to Oerth's inner para-elemental plane of ice using one of the less known transitional planes; how magic works there and how you pronounce runes nobody of the party has ever seen before, you included.

So Toot may know about the existence of the planes where he usually summons from (since they are not celestial or fiendish I'd say most of them are from Prime, barring elementals), and maybe about the source of negative and positive energy (though it's more like clerical part of divinity) but even telling this in a specific summoning case may be beyond his level of knowledge. Even thoqqua, one of his favourites is questionable. Fire? Earth? He has no idea about the para-elemental plane of magma.

Getting back to the original issue; Toot would not know about the actual traits of the energy planes and even if they were specifically described (which Mendor didn't do, only gave a vague description) he wouldn't realise that the librarian talked about the negative energy plane.

I figured most spell casters who could cast cure or inflict spells would have some basic knowledge of where the energy from those spells are channeled.  That wouldn't mean Toot would know what creatures called the Energy Planes home (even though there are very few that do).  This would require a knowledge planes skill.  Specific world cosmetology does complicate things because it is extremely difficult to get from Toril to Oerth.  I believe (don't quote me) that one of the few ways to move to or from Toril is through the Plane of Shadow.  And since the Spellplague, the Negative Energy plane collapsed into the Elemental Chaos, mixing with all the other Inner Planes.  I'm not sure why they made Toril so complicated with its World Tree.

I don't believe the MM1 mentioned any of Quasi-Elemental or Para-Elemental Planes.  But the Summon Nature's Ally spell specifically says the caster can summon ANY elemental.  To me it doesn't make any sense that the Quasi/Para Elementals should be immune to being summoned just because their stats weren't given in the MM1.  Or for some reason Summoners need a special spell to summon Quasi/Para Elementals that none of the DnD creators (Who we know love creating new spells) never got around to creating.  Even the Thoqqua entery in the MM1 only said it is an Earth and Fire Creature that dwells at the planar borders.  It could have said the Para-Elemental Plane of Magma but it didn't.

So are Quasi/Para Elementals immune to Toot's summonings?  

[DM Surranó]

I found that the things were changed and our characters hear the conversation.
What knows Torin about these planes?

Feel free to roll Knowledge (Planes). If you beat DC15 you realise what the librarian is talking about. 20+ means you know about the deadly traps Toot described OOC earlier (i.e. all-consuming negative energy and explosion by overflowing positive energy). You also know that this thingy is a "calling gate" so it must be calling from Negative, meaning the whole column is filled with negative energy (as you've pretty much guessed it already). You know about their place in cosmology and maybe even about the quasi-elemental planes.

What else? Feel free to ask "do I know that the negative plane is..." and I will say yes or no.

[DM Surranó]

So are Quasi/Para Elementals immune to Toot's summonings?  

You can summon elemental (any) which means anything that is called an "elemental" (not to be mistaken with the type "elemental", e.g. thoqqua) in one of the core books (means, in MM1). But if you are interested I will look up the para-elementals (guess they are in MoP) and may allow them.

[Merrinna Starsong]

Did you just say 'spellplague?' *shudders*

I don't recognize any FR alterations due to the abomination that is the 4e rules. I know some think they are great, so please take no insult. I've been playing since the old Basic rules. 4E was just too much of a change for me to take. I was in a long running game that switched from 3.5 to 4 and just could not make myself like it. The new stuff is cool, but I'm too heavily invested in 3.5 to buy into 5e.

[DM Dougfan]

I'm in the same boat. 4E is like Common Core for D&D: seriously dumbed-down mechanics and a new mandate for better story...because that's the only thing that's going to draw me into the game. I won't even touch 5e no because of it.

Oh, BTW, Hi all. I'm the potential new player. Working on it now.

[DM Surranó]

I have someone in mind who's into 5e. Knowing the good taste of @Torin 's player it can't be that bad....

Tapatalkkal küldve az én ALE-L21 eszközömről

[Torin]

I have someone in mind who's into 5e. Knowing the good taste of @Torin 's player it can't be that bad....

Tapatalkkal küldve az én ALE-L21 eszközömről

Yes. I play with a team whom started playing with 2E (I just start with 3E). We all love 5E and hated the 4E.
There are only 3 core rule books and 2-3 accessories and 6 adventures.

[Lugar]

I agree, 4E was, to be kind, lackluster and depressing. (abomination lol) I have yet to actually play a 5E game but I have read up on most of the rules/gameplay and I am excited to one day try it out. It seems the perfect balance of solid D&D rules/mechanics and imagination. I am not familiar with 5E monsters however.

I liked the old timey feel of 2E but I never really could get over Thac0... or some of the percentage rolls i.e. strength to bend bars...

[Lugar]

@Torin köszönöm