[OOC] Return to the Rusty Rat

[DM Surranó]

SM II:
Celestial giant bee* LG
Celestial giant bombardier beetle* NG
Celestial riding dog NG
Celestial eagle CG

SM III:
Celestial black bear LG
Celestial bison NG
Celestial dire badger CG
Celestial hippogriff** CG

SM IV:
Celestial giant owl** LG
Celestial giant eagle** CG
Celestial lion CG

* Strictly speaking these are not animals but vermin.
** Strictly speaking these are not animals but magical beasts

So sure there are celestial animals (animal-like creatures) on low levels, chaotic and lawful alike.
Maybe you checked a d&d version other than 3.5E?
- 3E has a shorter list but also features celestials
- AD&D 1st and 2nd editions didn't have templates at all, celestials included, but the spells are called "Monster Summoning", they start at third level only and are strictly arcane (1Ed: Magic User, 2Ed: Mage or Specialist Wizard).
- AFAIK there are no spells called "Summon Monster" in 4E/5E (but I may be wrong) so they don't match.

[Torin]

1. Sorry. A few important word missed from my post:
...
There is no celestial animal with swimming speed on SM 2-4 lists in D&D.

2. I started my RPG career with D&D 3.0 at 2001. I only played with the earlier versions in computer games like EOB.

3. We are playing 5E at now. There are no SM 1-9 and SN 1-9, but there are some specific summoning spells e.g. druids have got conjure spells:
Conjure Animals / Elemental / Fey / Minor Elementals / Woodland Beings

[DM Surranó]

True but we could probably build similar restrictions endlessly.
Generally speaking I don't mind that druids are better at summoning animals and elementals than clerics. Clerics are better at summoning archons and stuff.
Specifically for the current situation my sixth sense dictates that you have a plan that somehow resonates with the plans of wading through chest deep water, outside the reach of the construct, and not attacking it. Whatever that plan is, what's wrong with water elementals and water mephits? Other animals that are good swimmers but have no swim speed? (bison, bear, dog...)

[Toot]

I'm sorry I haven't posted.  I've either had to entertain company staying with me or work has been kicking my a$$.  I hope to post something when I get home from work in the morning.

[DM Surranó]

No hard feelings. Missed your GM posts as well so anticipated RL issues.

[DM Surranó]

it is roughly 350 feet of movement to dig a spiral of 10' radius considering the thoqqua's diameter (1ft) and it needs to be repeated... how many times? guess less than the total depth. Still, it's waaay too much. Can toqquas run while digging? not in a spiral I'd say.
So maybe both the diameter and the depth should be halved, effectively making the total effort about 2000ft of digging which is still 50 full rounds....

[DM Surranó]

OTOH-- I *think* the party does have some means to apply haste... curious if the character in question realises...

[Portho Nihilbuck]

are you factoring double move each round.. two move actions?

[Toot]

it is roughly 350 feet of movement to dig a spiral of 10' radius considering the thoqqua's diameter (1ft) and it needs to be repeated... how many times? guess less than the total depth. Still, it's waaay too much. Can toqquas run while digging? not in a spiral I'd say.
So maybe both the diameter and the depth should be halved, effectively making the total effort about 2000ft of digging which is still 50 full rounds....

I do not believe you can run while burrowing.  Though I guess they technically melt their way though the ground instead of burrowing but the description doesn't indicate that their is any difference between melting and burrowing. 

Toot will halve the diameter.  As for the depth, the creature is 15' plus 10' reach.  So we have to make sure the depth is at minimum 30'.  Toot doesn't know if it can jump or climb out of the hole (though I doubt it can since it would need instruction on what to do to get out of a hole) so Toot was playing it save.  But from what I've read about Golems, they are completely unable to handle surprise situations they haven't been prepared for by their creator.  And I doubt a hole opening up under their creature would be high on their lists of concerns.  Though who knows.  It's completely the DMs call about what the Golem has and has not been prepared for.  So Toot could lessen the depth to make sure the golem gets trapped and then wait to see if it can get out..  But the DM said someone can haste so if that person can figure out how it can be accomplished then that would help a lot.

[DM Surranó]

An enlarge spell would double the diameter of the thoqqua, cutting the spiral size significantly and halving the number of layers. Alas, a thoqqua is not a "person".
Anyway, it's not necessary if you can summon 2 thoqquas and use haste. With extend they can move 14x80ft each.
What else came into my mind is how the thoqquas are supposed to dig upwards. More likely they don't do spirals but do vertical shafts next to each other; or leave a few inches intact between the layers and then the earth elemental(s) punch holes in these layers to make it collapse when the trap is ready.

Technically I'm happy and eager to go on so I will move the story forward later today (possibly in the evening only)