Quote:Standard Turning: The standard rules for turning undead allow a cleric to affect a relatively narrow band of undead (up to 4 HD greater than his cleric level). This makes many undead creatures "off limits" for this iconic power of the clerics. This variant changes the cleric's turning check into a battle of personality strength, representing it by a level check that also takes into account the opponent's Charisma scores.

The cleric makes a turning check against the closest creature first, followed by a separate check against the next closest, and so on. When two or more creatures are equally close, the creature with the lowest number of Hit Dice is affected first (it ti's still a tie, the character chooses which one is affected first. Creatures more than 60 feet away cannot be turned.

A turning check is a level check to which the character also adds his Charisma modifier. (Use the character's effective turning level, which is equal to class level for a cleric or class level -3 for a paladin.) The DC is 10+ the creature's Hit Dice + its turn resistance (if any) + its Charisma modifier. (To speed play, the DM can add a "Turn DC" score to the statistics block of each undead creature.)

Quote:Complete Divine: 1d6 damage per level; 30' radius; Will Save for half? 

My least favorite option.  It's basically a short range fireball that only affects undead but without the limit of 10d6. The damage just keeps going up and up and up.  Which turns Clerics from the holy hand grenades to holy nukes at higher levels.  Since the Cleric has 3 + Charisma Mod per day uses per day, plus any Extra Turning Feats they pick up, they would be devastating against undead.  

Quote:Pathfinder Channeling: Range: 30' radius; Choose whether you heal living or Damage undead.  The damage or healing is 1d6 every odd level.  Undead gain a will save for half.  

Quote:Unearthed Arcana:  some creature's turn resistance should be increased to keep them from being too easy to turn. Any creature with turn resistance of +4 or higher should gain an additional +2 to its turn resistance. Creatures with turn resistance of +3 or lower need no change.

If the check fails, the creature is unaffected. Its Hit Dice do not count against the total number of creatures the character can turn (see below).

If the character succeeds on the check, the affected creature stands frozen in place for one round, just if it were paralyzed (though this affects even creatures with immunity to paralysis). On each succeeding turn, the character may take a standard action to concentrate on the effect, prolonging the effective paralysis for an additional round (This doesn't count as a turn attempt, and affects all undead creatures that the character had "paralyzed" in this manner.) The character may concentrate on this effect for a maximum of 10 consecutive rounds, after which the undead creature can act normally. If a creature affected in this way is attacked or takes damage, the effect is broken and the creature may act normally beginning on its next turn. (The character's proximity to the creature has no effect.) This effect is the same whether the character channels positive or negative energy.

If the character's check beats the DC by 5 or more, he may instead turn the creature (if he channels positive energy) or rebuke it (if he channels negative energy).

If the creature has Hit Dice equal to one-half the character's effective cleric level or less, the turning attempt automatically succeeds, and he does not have to make a check (the creature's Hit Dice still count against the maximum). Furthermore, such undead are automatically destroyed (if the character channels positive energy) or commanded (if the character channels negative energy).

The character makes checks against each eligible creature until he has affected the maximum Hit Dice worth of creatures, or there are no more eligible creatures. He can affect a number of Hit Dice of creatures equal to three x his effective cleric level on any one turning attempt. For example, a 4th level cleric (or 7th-level paladin) can affect up to 12 HD worth of creatures, which could mean two creatures with 6 HD each, four creatures with 3 HD each, or any other combination that adds up to 12 HD.

An evil cleric can instead channel negative energy to bolster undead or to dispel a turning effect. In either case, the cleric makes a normal turning check (if attempting to dispel a turning effect, add the turning cleric's Charisma modifier to the DC of the evil cleric's turning check). If the cleric successfully rebukes the undead, the undead gains turn resistance +2 (if he was attempting to bolster them) or they are no longer turned (if he was attempting to dispel the turning effect).

• Undead maybe should use CR instead of HD for power level.  
  
  
• For the complete Divine variant, perhaps turn resistance should lower the d6 damage for point of turn resistance.  So a vampire who has 4 turn resistance would lower a 12th level cleric's damage from 12d6 to 8d6. This would help against Clerics being undead Nukes!  OR maybe Turn Resistance would give them like an evasion ability.  So they take half damage or no damage if they succeed their save throw, which might be too powerful.
  
  
• For the Pathfinder variant, perhaps we could include the idea that if the cleric has twice as many levels (or more) as the undead have Hit Dice, you destroy any that you would normally turn, just like with standard turning.  Maybe turn resistance could be added to their hit dice so powerful undead are harder to destroy or use CR instead of HD.
  
  
• For the Pathfinder variant, perhaps we could include our maximization rule.  If the Cleric prays for 1 minute, healing is maximized.  I think this would take care of the scaling issues.
  

(04-20-2021, 03:17 PM)GM Marvel Wrote: Some possible options:

• Undead maybe should use CR instead of HD for power level.  
  
  
• For the complete Divine variant, perhaps turn resistance should lower the d6 damage for point of turn resistance.  So a vampire who has 4 turn resistance would lower a 12th level cleric's damage from 12d6 to 8d6. This would help against Clerics being undead Nukes!  OR maybe Turn Resistance would give them like an evasion ability.  So they take half damage or no damage if they succeed their save throw, which might be too powerful.
  
  
• For the Pathfinder variant, perhaps we could include the idea that if the cleric has twice as many levels (or more) as the undead have Hit Dice, you destroy any that you would normally turn, just like with standard turning.  Maybe turn resistance could be added to their hit dice so powerful undead are harder to destroy or use CR instead of HD.
  
  
• For the Pathfinder variant, perhaps we could include our maximization rule.  If the Cleric prays for 1 minute, healing is maximized.  I think this would take care of the scaling issues.
  

(04-28-2021, 03:11 PM)Selina Parcellus Wrote: I'm curious about something I just re-read in the main IC line:

[*]18.4 Undead A: Damage 4 + 12 = 16 + 16 damage = 32 damage!

Is that including the 15 damage Selina just recently hit it with?