[OOC] Return to the Rusty Rat

[Merrinna Starsong]

I'd play 5e. It's a good system. I'm just too heavily invested in 3.5 to buy into another version of DnD.

[Toot]

Did you just say 'spellplague?'  *shudders*

Yup, but you know how it is with The Forgotten Realms.  You can't swing a dead cat without hitting another goddess of Magic who has died.  Though this time it wasn't just Mystra who died.  Sevras died with the dissolution of Mystra's Realm, Dweomerheart and then while Azuth tried to escape the Spellplague, he was thrown into the Nine Hells where Asmodeus captured him and stole his divine essence, to became a god himself.  

There were a lot of changes in the Planes too.  The World Tree was destroyed.  Most of the Outer Planes were either destroyed or merged with Astral Dominions.  Paths were reopened to the Feywild. 

Forgotten Realms tend to have big events happen every time a new addition of the game is created to try to explain the changes.  I believe Ed Greenwood begged them not to do it but they did it anyways.

[Lugar]

Forgotten Realms has so much going on I can't keep track of it all. I was running a game when one of my players brought up the spellplague, so I added it into the campaign and then realigned a few things as the party started getting higher in level. They were level 12 when they started a whole series of planar travels and unearthing the master plot piece by piece (the Gods were getting killed off one by one and only Garlglittergold survived, because Gnomes). It wasn't just one big bad guy though, there was a bunch of evil backstabbers clambering to the top (Black Dragon & all her spawn, Vampire Coven, Lich Necromancer). The goal was to give the players the options of becoming new gods and selecting their portfolios to fill the gap of the old gods. The last session I ran with that group, one of the party clerics wanted to become a Hammer of Moradin, he got to meet one of Moradin's avatars in an abandoned forge on top of a mountain and after several crafting rolls and what seemed like days of smithing and constitution checks he finally had a hammer worthy of the god himself (Holy Adamantine Warhammer with a Rod of Empower as a handle), but as soon as he'd finished he found the forge cold and empty, the old smith was gone yet the hammer remained.... I miss that game... sniff sniff.

[Toot]

It sounds like it would be a lot of fun.  I haven't played Forgotten Realms in a long time.  When I did play FR, someone else was always the DM.

My favorite FR character was Ridley Glitterstone.  He was a 2.5e (the 1995 revised version) Gnome Fighter/ Illusionist that seemed overly friendly but could really kick some ass.  Ridley created a spell called Ridley's Believe it or Not.  He had to cast it with another illusion spell and if the target failed their save, they would absolutely believe the illusion was real and very deadly.  I think the best use of the spell was when we had to kill a Pit Fiend or Balor (what ever one that was vulnerable to silver).  Ridley cast his spell, creating a horde of Pikeman whose weapons were silver tipped.  The creature failed his save throw and was poked to death by a swarm of illusionary, silver tipped, pikes.  I miss that character.  I've thought about recreating him on this site for old time sake.

[Lugar]

Wow, just wow. A badass gnome fighter using his talents. It seems to me that every 2E story I hear always has this epic or legendary feel about it. I don't know, maybe 3E monsters just never really had the umph that the previous editions did. I wonder what 6E will be like.... Probably dnd without dice. Lol

[Toot]

I guess in a way you might be right about the epicness of 2e.  One big difference is there were a lot fewer combat rules and we didn't use a combat grid.  In 3e it seems like the rules can get bogged down with all the options in combat while in 2e, you just asked the DM if you could do something and they would tell you if it was possible.  We had a dwarf fighter run up the back of a dragon with his boots of spider climbing and start hacking at his face with his battleaxe which would be something nearly impossible to do in 3e.  In 3e you would have to grapple the dragon (good luck) and then pin it (good luck) and then more penalties to hang on and strike with your light weapon (Snowballs chance in hell).  

I do like the combat grid in 3e and when I think back I don't know how we ever ran combat without it.  I guess we put a lot of trust in the DM to not screw things up.  We never worried about reach or how many creatures could squeeze in around a monster to strike at him.  I guess that's one reason why the horde of Pikemen worked so well. 

As for the monsters in 2e, I think they were wimpier and the dragons were always a problem.  Most people felt they were too under powered.  They have come a long way from the maximum hit points of an Ancient Huge Red Dragon being a whole 88 HP; and they always did 1-8/1-8/3-30 no matter what their age (watch out for those baby dragons!); and their breath weapons inflicted their current hitpoints in damage.

[DM Surranó]

I think you mixed 1e into the lot (88 hp) and the breath did maxhp damage (88, even if the dragon was down to 1hp). However, the Dragonlance dealed the knight's current hp vs dragons (plus the mounted dragon's hp for a rider's dragonlance). Just vague memories, though.

In 2e we did use a hex grid, with orientation, flanking, and shield side. We had a loose version of two actions. You could either move full or move half then attack.

[Merrinna Starsong]

I still have a lot of love for 1e. Even more than 2e. I'd play AD&D in heartbeat if given the chance. Cavalier!

[Torin]

I guess in a way you might be right about the epicness of 2e.  One big difference is there were a lot fewer combat rules and we didn't use a combat grid.  In 3e it seems like the rules can get bogged down with all the options in combat while in 2e, you just asked the DM if you could do something and they would tell you if it was possible.  We had a dwarf fighter run up the back of a dragon with his boots of spider climbing and start hacking at his face with his battleaxe which would be something nearly impossible to do in 3e.  In 3e you would have to grapple the dragon (good luck) and then pin it (good luck) and then more penalties to hang on and strike with your light weapon (Snowballs chance in hell).  

I do like the combat grid in 3e and when I think back I don't know how we ever ran combat without it.  I guess we put a lot of trust in the DM to not screw things up.  We never worried about reach or how many creatures could squeeze in around a monster to strike at him.  I guess that's one reason why the horde of Pikemen worked so well. 

As for the monsters in 2e, I think they were wimpier and the dragons were always a problem.  Most people felt they were too under powered.  They have come a long way from the maximum hit points of an Ancient Huge Red Dragon being a whole 88 HP; and they always did 1-8/1-8/3-30 no matter what their age (watch out for those baby dragons!); and their breath weapons inflicted their current hitpoints in damage.

in 5E: Theather of mind (the battle grid is optional)

http://dmdavid.com/tag/dungeon-masters-w...as-you-do/

[Toot]

I think you mixed 1e into the lot (88 hp) and the breath did maxhp damage (88, even if the dragon was down to 1hp). However, the Dragonlance dealed the knight's current hp vs dragons (plus the mounted dragon's hp for a rider's dragonlance). Just vague memories, though.

In 2e we did use a hex grid, with orientation, flanking, and shield side. We had a loose version of two actions. You could either move full or move half then attack.

You're correct.  I was describing 1e dragons.  When 2e came around they had made vast improvements but they were still not as powerful as they are now.  

Your description of the Dragonlance does sound familar.  After doing a little research it sounds like the footman's lance did your hit points as damage, and the mounted lance did the rider's and the dragon's hit points as damage.  When the rules changed to 3e it appears the Dragonlance changed too.   

One version I found...

Dragonlance, Greater Mounted: This +4 keen dragon bane large heavy lance glows with a silver light. A greater mounted dragonlance is one forged with both the Hammer of Kharas and the Silver Arm of Ergoth. 

Caster Level: 12th; Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, keen edge, summon monster I, creator must be 12th level; Market Price: 98,310 gp; Cost to Create: 25,310 gp + 2,000 XP 

I still have a lot of love for 1e.  Even more than 2e.  I'd play AD&D in  heartbeat if given the chance.  Cavalier!

What was it you liked about 1e?