[OOC] Return to the Rusty Rat

[Lugar]

I disagree with the cheese sentiment, mainly because Dwarven cheese is strong and hard like dwarves...  

Question - How would an adamantine morning star fair against a stone horse, or stone golem? Great, and the wooden handle wouldn't be an issue. Those creatures aren't as thick as a wall or floor. Stone is hard but adamantine is much harder, a steel morning star would do fine too, it's hardness is better than stone as well, but no one would expect it to cut/smash/pierce through it like cheese.

How would it do against a floor or wall or door? Mediocre. Why? Because it's not designed for the work. Adamantine properties beside, it's piercing properties will chip away at the stone, much like a pick, but not as effective. If a Morningstar designed tool was that effective at breaking stone why aren't miners using them?

How would it do against rope? Terrible, maybe nothing.

If a pick is so great at mining and breaking up rock, why isn't it critting on constructs? Game balance I suppose.
That's why not all adamantine weapons just pierce/cut/smash through everything, it's design and balance. Otherwise the adamantine spiked chain is the way to go.

Torin brought up the most important factor. This is a fantasy world and can break the laws of normal physics. So we are left to imagine the mythical properties of adamantine. Is there some mystical field surrounding the metal that breaks up atomic bonds on impact? Doesn't say so in its description. But it does bypass hardness some how. Or is it just a really strong metal? Answer = DM

[DM Surranó]

Adamantine, as its name suggests, is hard as diamond and that's all. Its DR bypass is not supernatural and a construct's DR 15/admt isn't supernatural either. So if it comes to "fantasy" there are two possibilities: either "it's magic" or "it's not historical". Admt definitely falls in the latter category. Defying physics definitely falls in the former.

EDIT: another proposal. Adamantine works through anything with hardness less than 20 without any effort. In this case, Torin's adamantine full plate cuts through floor like knife through butter. Even when the dwarf is inside. Means he has to keep treading as if it were a body of water. non-Newtonian fluid. If he stops he sinks.
The good side is that he wouldn't risk being damaged by the process since he's not made of wood.
He would never suffer falling damage either since he would never stop falling until he would hit adamantine or would reach the gravitational center of the planet.
Unless of course this is a magical world with no gravitational pull at all.

[Toot]

Adamantine, as its name suggests, is hard as diamond and that's all. Its DR bypass is not supernatural and a construct's DR 15/admt isn't supernatural either. So if it comes to "fantasy" there are two possibilities: either "it's magic" or "it's not historical". Admt definitely falls in the latter category. Defying physics definitely falls in the former.

EDIT: another proposal. Adamantine works through anything with hardness less than 20 without any effort. In this case, Torin's adamantine full plate cuts through floor like knife through butter. Even when the dwarf is inside. Means he has to keep treading as if it were a body of water. non-Newtonian fluid. If he stops he sinks.
The good side is that he wouldn't risk being damaged by the process since he's not made of wood.
He would never suffer falling damage either since he would never stop falling until he would hit adamantine or would reach the gravitational center of the planet.
Unless of course this is a magical world with no gravitational pull at all.

Once again I feel like I have to say, I totally agree that as the DM you have the final word.  There was a post where you asked for opinions so this is what I'm doing.  So please no one take offense. 

Under Adamantine it specifically states, "Weapons fashioned from adamantine have a natural ability to bypass hardness when sundering weapons or attacking objects, ignoring hardness less than 20."   Adamantine only gives armor damage reduction.  So he couldn't use his armor to dig through stone.  

Lugar brings up a good point about creatures made from stone or iron.  Players have never had to check to see if their weapons break when fighting these creatures so why suddenly are we checking to see if they break when they hit inanimate objects made from the same material?  

Regarding how well an Adamantine weapon could cut through dense materials: Stone has 8 hardness and iron has 10 hardness.  So lets say you use an iron axe against wood (hardness 5).  Iron is double the hardness of wood so iron cuts through wood fairly easily. Adamantine (hardness 20) is more than double the hardness of stone so it is fairly reasonable (at least to me) to say a that an Adamantine ax can cut through stone much like Iron cuts through wood.  It's true a Morning star is not a slashing weapon but like a pick ax it is a piercing weapon which is used to penetrate stone.  Would the Morning star work just as good, likely not.  But that doesn't mean the spikes wouldn't penetrate the stone repeatedly until finally it breaks apart.  Just like an ice pick does when you pick away at ice.   

Regarding the wooden handle:  As a weaponsmith who actually created his mace with his own two hands, Torin would have known what purpose he had for the morning star [Breaking stuff] and knew he would need a stronger handle.  So he could have reinforced the Haft of the weapon a number of ways to resist breaking during its creation, including making it out of iron.

[DM Surranó]

Once again.
I have NOT stated that the adamantine morning star would not damage stone.
I have NOT stated that the shaft would break 100 out of 100 times.

If we are into splitting hairs, though, morning stars are not maces and spiked armor is a weapon. So abstracting from Torin, any adamantine spiked armor has the properties mentioned above.
Does it make sense?

[Toot]

I apologize for offering my opinion.  I hope you have a good day.

[DM Surranó]

A pretty good day indeed, preparing for family celebrations and no need to apologise. Your opinion is welcome, actually more so if we disagree.
Just to clarify-- I certainly hope that nobody took my non-Newtonian fluid idea seriously

[DM Surranó]

Will be off for the weekend. Cheers

Sent from my HUAWEI SCL-L01 using Tapatalk

[Lugar]

OOC - he's a locksmith and apparently he has experience with shock traps... the gates are indeed intended to be half height and actually they don't even contain too many straight bars.
Like the left one on this picture. I suppose you expected the main one.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736...68cbbf.jpg

Ooc - Ahh, I see now.  Thanks for going through the trouble to find a picture  Now, if only we had a wheel barrow and a holocaust cloak...

It's a reference to a movie, "The Princess Bride" as the man in black comes up with a plan to overcome 60 men guarding the castle gate.  Great movie, one of the best.  I figured a large adamantine construct = 60 guards at least  Wheel barrow & holocaust cloak.

Enjoy your weekend!

[DM Surranó]

Oh. I think I missed this movie my whole life. Will check if I can pick it up somewhere in retail stores or stuff.
Concerning a construct's XP value it's definitely worth a squad of sixty guards including some corporals and a sergeant.

[Lugar]

Moving houses this week, can't guarantee I'll be able to post. Feel free to DM PC Lugar so no one has to wait. I was going to make another Princess Bride reference if we meet Toot. He's an R.O.U.S. "rodent of unusual size," one of three dangers of the Fire Swamp!